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phil_t
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Provisional House Studies
      #1677676 - 08/05/03 10:33 PM

Well, as this is my 200th post i thought i'd do something a bit special So, here is a paper for consideration by the Whirling School and others

The Provisional House

Before I begin with the study, I must offer the warmest thanks to Nigedo for his help and council in preparing this paper – several of the ideas suggested here have stemmed from conversations with him and many of the sources I have used he brought to my attention – particularly the relationship between the teachings of Boethiah and the Provisional House. Without his help this paper would not have come about. So, onto the issues at hand.

Where is the Provisional House?

The Provisional House is described in Sermon 22 as ‘space that was not a space’ – it was used by Vivec to look back into the middle world (the Mundus)

From Sermon 19:

Quote:

‘Vivec put on his armor and stepped into a non-spatial space filling to capacity with mortal interaction and information, a canvas-less cartography of every single mind it has ever known, an event that had developed some semblance of a divine spark.’




It seems that from within the confines (if that is not a misnomer) of the Provisional House that Vivec can observe everything that is taking place upon the Mundus – perhaps not just within space but also within time, as suggested by ‘every single mind it has ever known’. Vivec builds it at the ‘Center of the Secret Door’ – I am still unclear as to the meaning of this, but I have an idea to throw out there – if Vivec goes to a place where he can observe all of time (as is suggested by the passage describing him observing things to come earlier in the Sermon) he is clearly not on the Mundus. So he must therefore be in another realm – I find it doubtful he would choose to visit with the Daedra, so could he have slipped into the realm of Akatosh, the old time dragon himself? From within the realm of time could he observe the past and the future to come? This may just be wild speculation but I thought that I’d bring it up for debate

What is the Provisional House?

So onto the House itself – it has four cornerstones, and in Dunmeri lore this can be linked to the Four Corners of the House of Troubles and other important architectural and geometric principles that seem important to the Dunmer, leading right back to the teachings of Boethiah and the prophet Veloth. From the Changed Ones

Quote:

‘Boethiah told the mass before him the Tri-Angled Truth. He showed them, with Mephala, the rules of Psijic Endeavor. He taught them how to build Houses, and what items they needed to bury in the Corners. He demonstrated the right way to wear their skin. He performed the way to walk to achieve an Exodus.’




This passage is important, especially the line ‘He taught them how to build houses, and what items to bury in their Corners.’ It leads us straight back to Sermon 19 and Vivec’s description of what is needed to form the Provisional House.

Further, from the Interview with Alvur Reids over at the Imperial Library –

Quote:

‘I’m no expert on Dunmeri architecture, though I studied it in the Temple. The priests would tell you all the pointy roofs or slanted walls come from working in responsible religious themes (like the Triangle, see) rather than, um, ecological necessity.’




The construction of the Provisional House appears to be as a form of protection to Vivec whilst he remains observing outside of the time and space of the Mundus. From an old poem that Vivec recites in Sermon 3 we find –

Quote:

‘The fire is mine: let it consume thee, And make a secret door At the altar of Padhome, In the House of Boet-hi-Ah Where we become safe And looked after.’




So we see that the House of Boethiah and the Provisional House are, if not the same, at least built along the same principles as each other.

What is the significance of the Corners?

Now I turn my attention to the four corners, and what we can interpret about each of them -

Quote:

‘Cornerstone one has a finger
Buried under, pointing through
Dirt, slow low in the ground
North cannot be guessed,
And yet it is spirit-free’




This appears to bear a relation to the magical cross mentioned in Sermon 13

Quote:

‘The magical cross is an integration of the worth of mortals at the expense of their spirits. Surround it with the triangle and you begin to see the Triune house. It becomes divided into corners, which are ruled by our brethren, the Four Corners: BAL DAGON MALAC SHEOG. Rotate the triangle and you pierce the heart of the Beginning Place, the foul lie, the testament of the irrefutable-for-a-span.’




The finger is the up and down, crossed over where it says ‘buried under pointing through’ – this forms a cross, as borne out by the line ‘north cannot be guessed’. That it is spirit free is explained by the first line from the quote from Sermon 13. I cannot explain the relationship further, other than that the Magical Cross does appear to link in closely with the Provisional House. The principle of ‘Dirt’ appears to represent our mortality, as shown by Sermon 32

Quote:

‘Take from me the lessons as a punishment for being mortal. To be made of dirt is to be treated as such by your jailers. This is the key and the lock of the Daedra. Why do you think they escaped the compromise?’




So, onto the Second Cornerstone –

Quote:

‘Cornerstone two has a tongue,
And even dust can be talkative,
Listen and you will see the love
The ancient libraries need’




Tongue is a term that relates to skilled users of the Nordic voice magic known as thu’um. Wulfharth was known as an incredibly powerful tongue, so could the line ‘even dust can be talktative’ somehow relate to him, as he was remade from dust by Shor (otherwise known as Lorkhan).

The libraries appear to be the realms of the Aedra – in Sermon 17 the Library of the Sun is mentioned in conjunction with Magnus, and if this is his realm it is possible that the other ‘libraries’ relate to the other Aedra. As for the love they need, this is a reference to the worship that the deities need in order to maintain their power over the other Gods (and also the Daedra possibly), which can be supported by this quote from ‘An Overview of Gods and Worship’.

Quote:

It has been theorized that gods do in fact gain strength from such things as worship through praise, sacrifice and deed. It may even be theorized that the number of worshippers a given Deity has may reflect on His overall position among the other Gods.




Cornerstone Three goes as follows, and I have to admit its got me completely stumped for any sort of meaning whatsoever, if anyone could enlighten me then it would be greatly appreciated –

Quote:

‘Cornerstone three has a bit of string,
Shaped like your favorite color,
A girl remembers who left it there
But she is afraid to dig it out,
And see what it is attached to’




As for Cornerstone Four, well, it’s probably the passage that is the easiest to explain –

Quote:

‘Cornerstone four has nine bones,
Removed carefully from a black cat,
Arranged in the fashion of this word,
Protecting us from our enemies’




The nine bones are those of the Aedra that gave themselves to form the Mundus – they are the Ehlnofey, they eight ‘Gift-Limbs of Sithisit’ of Sermon 21. The ninth is the heart bone, mentioned in Sermon 11votal seal of the Wheel. This is the ‘divine spark’ of the Mundus, the Heart of Lorkhan that is both part of and key to the existence of the Mundus. The black cat I took to be the void before the creation of the Mundus, although possibly it could also relate to Oblivion or some other realm. ‘This word’ I took to be the protonymical I that is found at the heart of the Tower, although who the enemies are that it is protecting against is unclear, as are the enemies from whom the whole of the Provisional House is meant to keep one safe.

So, that’s just about it for the initial study; comments, arguments and debunking are all appreciated.

Phil


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mafafu
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #1678255 - 08/06/03 02:23 AM

More great work, very interesting.

Quote:

Vivec can observe everything that is taking place upon the Mundus – perhaps not just within space but also within time, as suggested by ‘every single mind it has ever known’. Vivec builds it at the ‘Center of the Secret Door’ – I am still unclear as to the meaning of this




I have two coments about this. First, in the in-game conversations with Vivec, he states that he can indeed exist outside of time. So you appear to be correct in this point.

Also, as far as 'centers' and 'secret doors' go, you might want to read my next to last post in "The Center Cannot Hold" Studies thread.

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phil_t
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: mafafu]
      #1681038 - 08/06/03 05:15 PM

Mafafu, you explain much that i did not understand in your Center That Cannot Hold Studies .

From Mafafu's theories:

Quote:

The triangular gate is at the center of the heart of the second serpent, Lorkhan. (See Sep in Yokudan Pantheon). Seeing this from a certain perspective is to see the tower; to see the "True Self within the Universal Self" (Book of Hours). The Tower pierces the Beginning Place.




Quote:

This seems like saying, "One's place in the universe is nowhere, one person is nothing in the universe." But realizing this may lead to becoming "everything," because if the Beginning Place or the center holds nothing, then entering it means becoming everything. But if the center "cannot hold," this may be impossible.




This seems to fit in perfectly with my studies of the Provisional House - if the Tower pierces the Beginning Place where there is nothing and yet everything, surely it is here that Vivec builds his Provisional House. At a place where he can see everything that has happened and everything that will (or should that be could) happen.

If, as Mafafu says, it is impossible for the center to hold, perhaps this is what the Provisional House allows, for one to enter the Beginning Place and not become nothing - it protects against the Center that cannot Hold.

Responses?

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Nigedo
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #1681600 - 08/06/03 08:40 PM



It is with great pleasure that I announce

the fellowship of Phil in

The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec

in recognition of a well considered contribution made towards

a better understanding of the rational meaning of Vivec's teachings.


AE ANET CHIM




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phil_t
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #1681811 - 08/06/03 10:34 PM

Cool Thanx!

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mafafu
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #1682737 - 08/07/03 04:41 AM

Congratulations! I have enjoyed this study (and also the Wulfharth study) so far. Keep up the good work!

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Nigedo
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: mafafu]
      #1702006 - 08/12/03 11:14 AM

OK. Sorry again Phil about my late response. I have some comments about the issue of the location of the Provisional House and, by extension, its usefulness.

As Mafafu said, through his imparted divine nature, Vivec had the innate ability to continue to exist outside of linear Time and physical body, and return to both as he desired - this is revealed in his words to the Nerevarine;



When I die in the world of time, then I'm completely asleep.

I'm very much aware that all I have to do is choose to wake. And I'm alive again.

Many times I have very deliberately tried to wait patiently, a very long, long time before choosing to wake up. And no matter how long it feels like I wait, it always appears, when I wake up, that no time has passed at all.

That is the god place. The place out of time, where everything is always happening, all at once.


However, this is not the same experience as being within the Provisional House. When he is outside of linear time Vivec experiences the timelessness, or non-linear Time, of Aetherius and likens it to being asleep.

In this state, he is unaware of the movement of Time upon the Mundus, nor of events there, past or future - such terms have no meaning in the 'god place'.

Whereas in Sermon 19, Vivec describes the place of the Provisional House as "a non-spatial space filling to capacity with mortal interaction and information..." and later, "From here he could watch the age to come. "

The Provisional House, or rather its location, allows Vivec to position himself to have a knowledge of events from all times within the Mundus. It is therefore a point at which linear Time within the Mundus converges.

We are also told that Vivec builds the Provisional House "at the Center of the Secret Door", which we may take to mean the same as the "non-spatial space".

So, what is the Secret Door? Where can it be found?

How is it that while all else moves with the moment of the Wheel, the Secret Door remains fixed?

Here, it may help you to consider again the prayer of Vivec;



'The fire is mine: let it consume thee,

And make a secret door

At the altar of Padhome,

In the House of Boet-hi-Ah

Where we become safe

And looked after.'


Here we see that a 'Secret Door' is 'made at the Altar of Padhome', when one becomes consumed by 'the fire'.

What can you make out of this?

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Nigedo
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #1708979 - 08/14/03 12:34 PM

*BuMp*

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Nael
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #1767262 - 09/04/03 05:05 AM

Quote:

Vivec builds it at the ‘Center of the Secret Door’ – I am still unclear as to the meaning of this




You do not open a door from the center but instead this is where you visualize the door and seek to understand it. You cannot fully understand the door until you have opened it. Therefore the door is Secret. Even to Vehk.

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Nigedo
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nael]
      #1770572 - 09/05/03 01:03 PM

Quote:

You do not open a door from the center but instead this is where you visualize the door and seek to understand it. You cannot fully understand the door until you have opened it. Therefore the door is Secret. Even to Vehk.




I am intrigued by this Nael. I would be grateful if you could expand on what have you said, though, so that I can fully grasp your meaning.

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Nael
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #1770856 - 09/05/03 05:36 PM

Basically what I am saying is that if Vivec says that he has built his Provincial house specifically in the *center* of the door that doesn't say he has opened it. I think expressly it means that he *HAS NOT* opened it despite the fact that he wishes to. Whether this door is the concept of True Divinity or some omniscient understanding of the Divine I do not know.

If you still do not understand, think of it like this... when you think of a specific door how do you visualize it? Is it closed or open? I'd be ready to bet 10 septims that it's closed otherwise how do you know a door was there in the first place and how else would you have seen it and visualized it?

With this wonderful report in hand we can assume the door is multi-layered, consisting of multiple divine "Aspects". Thru these Aspects divinity is assumably reached or fully understood. Through methods unallowed to him thanks to the Heart, Vivec built his temporary or "Provisional House" of divinity at the center of this door, drawing upon as many Aspects' influences as possible but basing it off of Boethiah's aspect of plots and mystery. Gee, conicidence?

Because in Vivec's writings it is called a Door, it remains a Door, to Him, forever unopened.

I will throw up a subject to run with while we're on this topic. What might the phrase from Sermon 32 have to offer *if anything* to this line of thought?:

Quote:

'Take from me the lessons as a punishment for being mortal. To be made of dirt is to be treated as such by your jailers. This is the key and the lock of the Daedra. Why do you think they escaped the compromise?'




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phil_t
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nael]
      #1776609 - 09/08/03 08:21 AM

These are some excellent points Nael, and throw some interesting new light on the study, i thank you for your attention

Nigedo had mentioned to me your last quote before, but i think that perhaps i did not understand its importance at the time - i will answer further when i have studied a little more!

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Nael
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #1797940 - 09/18/03 06:00 AM

I have been doing some thinking on this study and I would like to offer my interpretation first, of what the Third Cornerstone might be.

Quote:


Cornerstone three has a bit of string,
Shaped like your favorite color,
A girl remembers who left it there
But she is afraid to dig it out,
And see what it is attached to






I feel it is a reference to Dwemer, so I will try and cite why I believe this line by line.

Line 1: Might be a reference to the fact that western mettalurgist have found that the metal used by dwemer mechanists (mithril) is actually created much in the same way textiles are, in that it is threaded like string.

Line 2: Often in the Sermons and the Apographa (Alandro Sul's account of the Battle at Red Mountain) the color of gold is often in reference to the dwemer and that it is shaped like their representative color could mean their basic tennants and what they stood for. Could also be a reference to the Anumiudium itself.

Line 3: I believe the girl is Azura who, also known to the Chimer/Dunmer as "Mother Soul" for good reason. She often guides, protects, and represents the Dunmer people, great and small. At the same time it could also be a reference to Sotha Sil. These two are closely related in that the Anticipation of Sotha Sil is Azura.

Line 4&5: I take this to mean that Sotha Sil(?)/Azura are the only ones who know exactly what happened to the Dwemer. The string from Line 1 in this instance however could be a reference to the flow of time, and that somehow, related to the Heart of Lorkhan and the Dwemer it has become warped. Specifically when the Numidium has been enacted, it causes what has been referred to as "The Dragon Break". Whether this means the Dwemer do still exist in another realm, but have the power to disrupt the string, or flow of time from linear (normal) to aurbic time. Aurbic time is described by Vivec in Sermon 19:
Quote:


Vivec put on his armor and stepped into a non-spatial space filling to capacity with mortal interaction and information, a canvas-less cartography of every single mind it has ever known, an event that had developed some semblance of a divine spark.’




and further :

Quote:


Vivec then built the Provisional House at the Center of the Secret Door. From here he could watch the age to come.






So we can see here why events, such as the Warp in the West occured because when the Numidium is used Time becomes "Aurbic" so it is possible to shape multiple perceived realities. Since the Dwemer disappeared this happens everytime the Numidium is used because essentially since it must exist in the Dwemer's reality it is creating a copy of itself. But how can one make a copy of all that can be or ever will be (the divine spark, if you will), and then copy it unto itself. That can't happen so possible realities come back to us in a perception of Aurbic time that happens on a grand scale and not just to those involved. I think this line of thought should be saved for another time. The Warp of the West isn't really a strong suit of mine. So let's move on and take a look at the Cornerstones in their entirety and we might see what Vehk means when he says:

Quote:


Your house is safe now

So why is it--

Your house is safe now

So why is it--






Here now we can see why he repeats the words when we have shown what each cornerstone is:

Your house is safe now: Cornerstone One or, the Nords. Might also just be a reference to Men in general.

So why is it--: Cornerstone Two, and how they have escaped the Compromise. Or an example of how they might

Your house is safe now: Cornerstone Three or, the Dwemer. Like Line 1 it could be a broad reference to Mer.

So why is it--: Was their disappearance related to them escaping the Compromise? And if this is so, then it is a demonstration of how to do so.

Whew... well I hope this makes sense. I'm not exactly sure how to conclude this so I'll let someone else do it .

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phil_t
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nael]
      #1805655 - 09/22/03 04:07 AM

Once again Nael, excellent work This is the best (well, only) explanation for the lines of Cornerstone Three that i have heard so far, and i must admit that i had not thought along these lines before. Very interesting, thank you

Phil

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Nigedo
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nael]
      #1805890 - 09/22/03 06:20 AM

Relating to Cornerstone Three, you have made some interesting points Nael, which warrant further investigation.

I just have some comments, again, about the location of the Provisional House and the properties of this location.

You mentioned that this introduction to Sermon 19;

'Vivec put on his armor and stepped into a non-spatial space filling to capacity with mortal interaction and information, a canvas-less cartography of every single mind it has ever known, an event that had developed some semblance of a divine spark.'

is a description of Aurbic, or non-linear, Time. I disagree with this for the reasons that I have given in my previous post. That is, that the non-spatial space is specifically linked to the Mundus; being, as it is, 'filled to capacity with mortal interaction'.

I suggest that the timelessness experienced within the non-spatial space is due to it being the place within the Mundus where mortal history, linear Time, converges. Hence, 'From here he [Vivec] could watch the age to come'.

This is supported by the Universal model of the Wheel. This section is from 'The Scripture Of The Wheel',

'The Spokes are the eight components of chaos, as yet solidified by the law of time: static change, if you will, something the lizard gods refer to as the Striking.

That is the reptile wheel, coiled potential, ever-preamble to the never-action.'

'They are the lent bones of the Aedra, the Eight gift-limbs to SITHISIT, the wet earth of the new star our home.

Outside them is the Aurbis, and not within.

Like most things inexplicable, it is a circle. Circles are confused serpents, striking and striking and never given leave to bite.'


This section draws the boundary between Aurbic Time, outside the Spokes, and linear Time within them, the latter being expressed as the moment of The Wheel [about an axis], which is described as 'the reptile wheel, coiled potential, ever-preamble to the never-action'.

Within this model, only the mortal plane within the Spokes is subject to rotation, Oblivion and Aetherius (as realms of the Aurbis) are not. This rotation is a model for the continuous flux that mortals experience as linear time or 'sequential sensation'.

So, in order to elicit further study from you and Phil ( ) I ask: What is the axle, or pivot, of the Mundus, that remains fixed?


Previously, you proposed that the Secret Door represented a portal that was closed to Vivec. I also disagree with this, although I cannot say that I disagree with your reasoning around what the Secret Door represents.

I believe that Vivec, and the other Tribunes, did indeed experience divinity and that no knowledge of the divine remained hidden from them. However, knowledge alone is not the requisite for achieving or retaining divine status. I will not pursue this too much, since it begins to wander off topic, but here is a section from Sermon 18;

'Can a member of the Invisible Gate become so archaic that its successor is not so much an improvement of the exact model, but rather a related model that is just needed more because of the currency of the world's condition?

As the Mother, you do not have to worry, unless things in the future are so strange that even Seht cannot understand. Neither does the Executioner or the Fool, but I am neither.

These ideals are not going to change in nature, even though they may change in representation. But, even in the west, the Rainmaker vanishes. No one needs him anymore.

Can one oust the model not because the model is set according to an ideal but because it is tied to an ever-changing unconscious mortal agenda?'


This is an expression of Vivec's concerns that he may one day lose the divine status that he clearly holds, due to a shift in the desires and needs of the Dunmer.

The reason I challenge your idea of the door being closed, is because I believe it is important to understand that the Secret Door, for Vivec, is that which allowed him to pass through and steal divinity. It is that which is made 'at the altar of Padhome' when one is 'consumed by the fire'.

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Nael
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #1806515 - 09/22/03 12:31 PM

I've done some further consideration concerning Cornerstone Three and after thinking about it, a more reasonable explanation is that it is a reference to the Dunmer people. What led me to this conclusion is Line 2 where it says "shaped like your favorite color". This sounds like a reference to the change that occured in the Dunmer from going from being golden skinned to ash colored, hence "shaped like your favorite color (black, dark)". As to Line 1: "Cornerstone Three has a bit of string" I have no clue... any ideas? Anyway, my revamping of my interpretation makes Lines 4&5 make more sense and forces me to admit that Azura had a hand in the change from Chimer to Dunmer. If you wanna get nitpicky though, it was the Tribunal who changed the Chimer *kicks dirt up on Eternall_Fish's shoes* .

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Vehk
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nael]
      #1811169 - 09/24/03 02:43 PM

Very, very nice.

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phil_t
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Vehk]
      #1811348 - 09/24/03 05:13 PM

Ahhh Master Vehk, how you torment us with mere flattery. Perhaps you would care to impart some of your wisdom, great one

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Nigedo
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #1811689 - 09/24/03 10:13 PM

Quote:

...impart some of your wisdom, great one








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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #1813514 - 09/26/03 01:15 AM

Hey, i just thought, who better to explain Vehk's sermons than the man himself It'd save me a lot of headache's trying to extract all the meaning out of it anyway!!

Wait, i just remember the last time Vehk 'explained' something, it left me with more headaches than when i started What we need is a straight-talking God, who is definately no good at poetry and confusing statements, but very omnipotent!

Phil

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #1813632 - 09/26/03 02:16 AM

Edit: No perhaps I'd better not say that.



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Edited by Nigedo (09/26/03 02:22 AM)

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #1831153 - 10/03/03 06:28 PM

From Vehk's information on Chim and the Psijic Endeavor

Quote:

Those who can attain this state, called chim, experience an ineffable sense of the godhead, and escape the strictures of the world-egg




Quote:

One that knows CHIM observes the Tower without fear. Moreso: he resides within.




So i suggest that by using the power of Chim to create a Provisional House WITHIN the Tower, Vehk could observe all the events of time at once, as suggested by -

Quote:

a non-spatial space filling to capacity with mortal interaction and information, a canvas-less cartography of every single mind it has ever known, an event that had developed some semblance of a divine spark




Quote:

Vivec then built the Provisional House at the Center of the Secret Door. From here he could watch the age to come




This is supported by the following -

Quote:

It should be noted that, while Veloth is given credit for establishing the anti-laws that govern the Endeavor, this process has its antecedents in the teachings of the Black Hands Mephala, Boethia, Azura, Trinimac, and, of course, Lorkhan, through that lord's association with PSJJJJ.




This links into the evidence that suggests the Provisional House is closely related to the teachings of the Daedra, especially Boethiah, as regards sacred geometry

The sacred prayer of Sermon Three

Quote:

'The fire is mine: let it consume thee, And make a secret door At the altar of Padhome, In the House of Boet-hi-Ah Where we become safe And looked after.'




This is evidence that the House of Boethiah, very similar in principle to the Provisional House, is linked to making a 'secret door at the altar of Padhome' - and as we can see this is close to the state of Chim, which is described by Vehk as -

Quote:

At its simplest, the state of chim provides an escape from all known laws of the divine worlds and the corruptions of the black sea of Oblivion. It is a return to the first brush of Anu-Padomay, where stasis and change created possibility.




So, responses to this new theory??

Phil

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #1831306 - 10/03/03 08:33 PM

A search of The Imperial Library for the word CHIM yields two pieces of information. I don't know if they pose any significance:

From Sermon Twelve, "With these magic words, the King of Rape added another: 'CHIM,' which is the secret syllable of royalty."

From Sermon Fifteen, "Go unarmed into his den with these words of power: AE GHARTOK PADHOME [CHIM] AE ALTADOON."

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: B]
      #1831317 - 10/03/03 08:40 PM

Sermon 12 is a depiction of the method that Vehk used to learn the mystery of CHIM as demonstrated as the Ehlnofex sigil, rather than the route by which he stole the comfort of the Tower.

In this depiction, he tempts Molag Bal into divulging the 'secret syllable' which he is then able to use to further equip the Hortator in readiness to face the Sharmat.

Hence the Hortator's sigilistic protection is shifted from "GHARTOK PADHOME GHARTOK PADHOME" to "AE GHARTOK PADHOME [CHIM] AE ALTADOON".

I believe that the bracketing of CHIM represents its insertion and blending into the string of power once Vivec had acquired it from the King Of Rape.

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #1831343 - 10/03/03 09:00 PM

Excellent Phil.

I don't think that this is the whole truth, though. You will recall that Vehk now declares himself publicly to be the Thief. In fact, this has long been the underlying perception of him and the other Tribunes by those who had such an understanding of "the three thieves of Morrowind".

It is only a public acceptance by Vehk that this absolute reality is his true destiny, since he is the only one of the three (or four) to survive. But Vehk was the Thief before the Poet-Warrior and the Father of Morrowind, albeit covertly, as thieves are.

Now he challenges even great Rajhin for his place at the Gate. For where Rajhin "stole a tattoo from the neck of Empress Kintyra as she slept", Vehk stole all the mysteries of a god and made himself one for a time.

In Vehk's words "The Thief is another metaphorical absolute; in this case, he represents the 'taking of the Tower' or, and sometimes more importantly, the 'taking' of the Tower’s secret." (ref. 'The Tower')

So the end result may have been much the same, but it is by theft that Vivec acquired his knowledge of the Tower... by a "secret" door and what is the means by which this was accomplished?

Understand this and I believe you will be able to see why it is so linked to mortal interaction.

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #1831855 - 10/04/03 03:51 AM

Apparently, the standard way to reach the Tower is through the Psijic Endeavor. However, it appears that Vehk snuck through the back door using the Heart of Lorkhan.

I look forward to hearing more about this.

EDIT: quoting myself

Quote:


Quote:


One that knows CHIM observes the Tower without fear. Moreso: he resides within.




So, is CHIM the key to the Tower?




I think of a thief as somone who does not have a key, but rather someone who breaks in. So, maybe Vehk broke in as the thief, rather than attaining the secret of the Tower through understanding of CHIM

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Edited by mafafu (10/04/03 04:46 AM)

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: mafafu]
      #1832087 - 10/04/03 05:25 AM

Quote:

Apparently, the standard way to reach the Tower is through the Psijic Endeavor.



Side Note:

It is more likely *a* way. Remember that the Selectives looked upon the Tower too and heard it speak its protonymic, but their recklessness led them to assault its mythic basis, causing the great Dragon Break. This is not the purpose of the Endeavor but it demonstrates that other means may lead one to the Tower.

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Nael
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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: B]
      #1832259 - 10/04/03 07:12 AM

Quote:



From Sermon Twelve, "With these magic words, the King of Rape added another: 'CHIM,' which is the secret syllable of royalty."

From Sermon Fifteen, "Go unarmed into his den with these words of power: AE GHARTOK PADHOME [CHIM] AE ALTADOON."




I have a couple of questions concerning the strings of power. First of all I was always unsure/unclear as to whether it was a secret message or just words that have lost modern meaning to those that live in the the Third Era.

Second, the fact that "CHIM" is the secret syllable of royalty, could this be in connection with the line from Sermon 4:

Quote:

Then an Old Bone of the earth rose up before the simulacrum of the netchiman's wife and said, 'If you are to be born a ruling king of the world you must confuse it with new words. Set me into pondering.'




There are other references to "the king of the world (or earth)" such as Sermon 9 and Sermon 12. So could CHIM be a reference to what is missing from his listing of the eight worlds in Sermon 3:

Quote:

They shall be our doom in this and the eight known worlds, NIRN, LHKAN, RKHET, THENDR, KYNRT, AKHAT, MHARA, and JHUNAL.




So CHIM perhaps is what protects the Dunmer people from doom and makes Vivec the "king of the world(earth)"?

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #1832400 - 10/04/03 08:17 AM

Quote:

It is more likely *a* way.




Well then, read "reach" as "attain" or "understand" or "gain the secrets of". I didn't really mean that the way it sounded.

Also, Lorkhan saw the Tower before he made his attempt in the Endeavor. So, yes, your statment seems to be correct. This leads to the fact that seeing or realizing the Tower does not lead to the transcendance related to the Tower.

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: mafafu]
      #1832448 - 10/04/03 08:35 AM

I just mean to say that the Endeavor is one possible approach to realising the Tower.

What appears to be of equal importance is the motivation for seeking the Tower's secrets and the knowledge of what to do with them.

But we are going off track, again.

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #2199632 - 02/02/04 10:04 PM

Some conclusions to my theory, in preparation for a final report -

Nigedo asked - 'What is the axle, or pivot, of the Mundus, that remains fixed?'

The answer is that the axle of the Mundus is the Heartbone, the Heart of Lorkhan, the centre of the mystic Wheel. At the time i did not see the connection this held to the Provisional House, so i move to his next question.

Nigedo asked - 'It is by theft that Vivec acquired his knowledge of the Tower ... by a "secret" door and what is the means by which this was accomplished?'

The answer, obviously, is that Vivec used the Heart of Lorkhan as a secret door to the Tower, and seeing the truths there, used the power to achieve temporary godhood. The Heart is therefore the Secret Door at the centre of which Vivec builds the Provisional House, from where he can observe the Mundus outside of time. This is why the non-spacial space is 'filled to capacity with mortal interaction' and explains the reference to the 'Divine Spark'.

Phil


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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #2199756 - 02/02/04 11:28 PM

Hehe. I had completely lost track of this and had to go back and re-read the whole thread.

So, that's great anyway

But what then do you make of the prayer of Vivec and how it may link to the Provisional House (back on page 1)?

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #2202108 - 02/03/04 01:23 PM

Quote:

in preparation for a final report




Aw...crap...

You're making me feel guilty for being such a slacker!

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: mafafu]
      #2202134 - 02/03/04 01:30 PM

Quote:

You're making me feel guilty for being such a slacker!



If the Wraithguard fits...



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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #2202699 - 02/03/04 05:37 PM

Always more questions ....

Oh well

Phil

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #2202767 - 02/03/04 06:24 PM

Just the original questions Phil, from page one of the thread.

Where's your avatar btw?

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #2202919 - 02/03/04 08:51 PM

Bah!!

Thanks for the help, the avatar is live and kicking!!!

Phil

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #2203615 - 02/04/04 03:51 AM

Here's a clue.

Look for references to the "Temple of False Thinking".

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #2223750 - 02/10/04 03:50 AM

From Sermon 3

‘The fire is mine: let it consume thee,
And make a secret door
At the altar of Padhome,
In the House of Boet-hi-Ah
Where we become safe
And looked after.’


This is now clearly linked into Vivec's ascent to Godhood. Im not too clear on the reference to 'fire', perhaps this is divinity?? The making of the secret door at the altar of Padhome refers to Vivec and the Tribunal 'stealing' their Godhood by manipulating the Heart of Lorkhan (who was the son of Padhome, and i guess represents the secrets of Godhood and the Stasis to be found in that state). The House of Boethiah, which appears to be linked with the 'Temple of False Thinking' from Sermon 16 is a reference to the Provisional House, a safeguard against the return of mortality??

I think this explains the reference to Vivec's hair being cut off and woven into an 'incomplete map of adulthood and death', in order to make room for the 'fire' - Vivec is giving up his mortality, and in a sense his humanity and mortal interactions, in order to ascend to the fire of Godhood. This is perhaps the reason behind the construction of the Provisional House, so that Vivec may remain 'grounded' in mortality even as he soars above it, perhaps a safeguard against the madness that took Almalexia as she considered herself beyond the realm of mortals.

Just a few theories, what do you think??

Phil

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: phil_t]
      #2256616 - 02/19/04 06:33 AM

Although I have responded to your points by messenger, I will just add a reminder here

Sermon 6 should be of some use in interpreting Vivec's prayer.

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Nigedo]
      #2259122 - 02/19/04 07:34 PM

What you scholarly gentlemen need is a good Void Ranger to confuse you...

Nigedo's right. The Provisional House is not outside the Aurbis. Vehk was crystal clear about where it is! At the center, in the Secret Tower. Outside is the Void. Inside, at the Hub of the Wheel, has no name as far as I'm aware. And it seems Vehk didn't choose to give it one. But the space there has some of the same attributes as the Aurbis. It doesn't participate in the motion of the wheel, what you call time, not because it isn't part of the wheel, but because the hub of a wheel is still. The Provisional House is certainly not in any of the realms of Oblivion. I picture poor little Vehk squatting with a blanket in a corner of Mephala's realm. No, this was a place claimed by no one, before the Tribunal found it.

The problem with being outside of time is the one Phil has mentioned... it's difficult to be outside without being nothing. Well... not really nothing. But nothing capable of being useful to the folks left inside. Those who go that way, if they return at all, find they have met Sheogorath and not Lorkhan upon the road. If you are of the sort who needs space, you have to take it with you. Thus the Provisional House.

I believe what I'm trying to say is that, true as the mystical and symbolic interpretations are, the Provisional House is also literal truth, describing a literal place. Perhaps even (I do not presume to know the Master's methods) a physical place, as the places of Oblivion are physical places.

On another subject. All the Almalexia-bashing on the forums is going to make me scream. Granted, you have seen Almalexia at her worst. Dare you impugn her, knowing what she was at her best? When I met my beloved little thief, he was hiding in a hole, waiting to be rescued, hoping none of the mortal worshippers outside would wander in and hurt him... there are different kinds of madness. Outside, the child's lurking fear of what lies under the bed passes away. Him you honor, her you denigrate. But hers was the holier path, by Vehk's own admission, and a path not preserved in sermons, but gone out of this world entirely, at least for a time. Mourn the terror and majesty of this world, that makes such wonders and then consumes them!

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Re: Provisional House Studies [Re: Allerleirauh]
      #2259675 - 02/20/04 12:13 AM

Thank you Alli. That is a very clear explanation of the structural basis for the Provisional House and a sobering warning, which we do well to heed. I appreciate your contribution.

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